AI, Meet Gen Z: Growing Early Talent in the Age of AI with Monne Williams

David Maffei: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Aspire to Inspire Podcast. My name's David Maffei, and I'm the general manager at Staffbase in North America. Also a lifelong Red Sox fan, that will become important momentarily. And I'm especially excited about today's guest. So Monne Williams isn't just thinking about the future of work. She's building it. As the chief impact officer at Handshake, she's redefining how employers connect with Gen Z talent using data and storytelling, and authenticity to bridge the gap between potential and opportunity.

Before Handshake, Monne spent 11 years at McKinsey advising Fortune 500s on transforming and co-authoring landmark reports like Women in the Workplace. And before that, she was in the big leagues, literally marketing for the Boston Red Sox and launching diversity initiatives at Fenway Park. In this episode, we'll break down what Gen Z really wants from employers, how to communicate change in an AI-driven workplace, and why the emotional connection on the field or in the office is the ultimate game changer. Welcome, Monne.

Monne Williams: Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

David Maffei: Awesome. So we will just kick directly into this. So, today, you're the chief impact officer at Handshake. Tell me what drew you into this role, and what does impact mean to you when it comes to connecting early talent with employers?

Monne Williams: Happy to. I always start this conversation with, I was a consultant for 11 years, as you mentioned. And that's a vague job title, but somehow I chose a job title that is maybe even more vague than the one I had before. So always happy to explain what it means. So, at Handshake, I get to think about inclusion and thinking about best practice when it comes to talent, both the folks you already have internally and then the early talent that the employers that we work with are trying to recruit, and how to create the best environment for those people.

And so we really think about it both for our own internal employees at Handshake, but also for all of the employer customers that we're working with. And with our employer customers, it really is focused on, you know, we work with small companies, medium-sized companies, Fortune 500s, and helping them bring all the best of the data and information that we have and the research that we do to their decision-making so that they can make better and different decisions about the talent that they're trying to recruit and the strategies that are going to help them get there.

David Maffei: Yeah, that's fantastic. I know that you've said access to opportunity shouldn't be about luck. And so, how does that belief almost show up in the way that you lead or in the way that you make decisions?

Monne Williams: I'm not perfect, but the way that I try to have it show up is I'm very aware of how much being in the right room, meeting the right person can help. And I think that that's all great stuff, and I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen. But I do think having more systems, processes, ways that people can get exposed to things that they wouldn't find in their natural environment or the way that they spend their time is really important. So, for example, growing up in Virginia, where I was born, I'm first-generation college. I was really lucky to get exposed to internships and opportunities to work in jobs where I met mentors.

And that helped me get a new internship and meet another person who helped me think about something else. And that's great and I'm glad that I had that experience, and I'm glad that I went to a school that gave me the resources to do that. But everyone hasn't had that experience. And so how do we use a lot of these digital tools that we have available now, like Handshake, to help even the playing field for students?

And so, folks who are living in a particular location where maybe a lot of employers have not traditionally recruited, how do we get more of those students access to those internships and jobs, how do they learn about those industries, and what some of those career paths can look like so that they might make different decisions than they would have made with the more limited information that they may have had available before?

And I think the core belief I have is that most people want to do a good job and that most people want to be capable. So, I assume that most people are. And so, then my job is to create the systems and environment that allow the most people to be successful as possible, and trying to bring a lot of that thinking and what we've learned to the employer partners that we work with as well.

David Maffei: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And obviously, what we're talking about is such an important topic, but through the lens of what opportunity it can create. You mentioned that you're a first-generation college student. Everyone in the audience today may not be familiar with the schools that you attended. Small university called Duke and got your master's at a place no one's ever heard of called Harvard.

Talk to me about just how going through those two institutions, or institutions similar to those have shaped your perspective when you think about equity, when you think about opportunity, and for those who are listening out in the audience today, what can that mean for them as they look forward?

Monne Williams: I've always been a basketball fan, so I always knew about Duke. But when I was in high school, I did an externship at this Department of Energy facility. Talk about nerdy. It was like an electron accelerator beam facility. Very cool opportunity in my junior year of high school to do that. And I met a mentor during one of my rotations during this externship. And he was telling me that he was super excited because his nephew had just gotten into Duke, and he was going there. And he was like, "You should really be thinking about Duke." At the time, I thought UNC was a better option because, again, basketball, and growing up where I grew up, everyone's a UNC fan.

And really, it was that summer internship, and him talking about Duke so much, and the experience that his nephew was having getting ready for that, and then me having an opportunity to learn more about the school and the programs that they had available. I really loved that almost everyone studied abroad. There's a lot of people who were former high school athletes there. It just felt like a good fit. And then we went to campus, and our experience was pretty terrible. Me and my mom got lost, couldn't find anything. But I said, "Wow, this is a beautiful place. This is where I'm supposed to be." And so, I decided to apply.

And I think from the beginning, I just realized how many resources Duke had available. And I was very lucky and or anxious. And so I decided to take advantage of them. I mean in my freshman year, I was in the Career Center because I was determined to get a job when I graduated, and I thought I have to start now. And so, shout out to Cara, the woman in the Career Center, who was super helpful in helping me start to think about the types of work I might want to do, and then therefore the classes and things I want to take while I'm there. Just a lot of early opportunities and advice when I joined Duke that really helped me navigate Duke and get the most out of all that was available there.

David Maffei: That's so cool. Total aside, but I have a daughter who's a junior in high school. And just two nights ago, we booked a trip where we're hitting Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, and NC State as a part of our [...] for colleges

Monne Williams: I love that.

David Maffei: Yeah, so, we're excited. All right. Let's talk Gen Z in the workforce. So, I would love to get a sense from you in terms of just your point of view of what that means and how it's evolved. And so, from your work with, I think, nearly 20 million Handshake users, what do Gen Z candidates want most from employers, and where do you think the companies are still falling short?

Monne Williams: Sure. I'll take a step back first and just explain a little bit about how we are in this space and how we help Gen Zers. So handshake is the largest career social network for Gen Z and early talent. We are a three-sided marketplace. For the students, they go there to get career coaching, to find jobs, to get appointments with their career centers. For career centers, we basically become the virtual instance of the work that they're trying to do with students. And for employers, we bring all of the ease of being able to connect with way more schools than they would have done traditionally to recruit students from all over the country and the world to be able to work in those jobs.

So really trying to bring all those things together in one place to make it easier for people to make those connections on folks looking for talent and then the talent looking for those jobs. And Gen Z is very much in a moment where there's a lot of really interesting things happen. For employers, there's this retirement boom we keep talking about with baby boomers. And so they're really trying to think about the talent that they're going to need, how fast do they need to get it, and how is that evolving giving some of the advent of technology and AI, and all the other things that are happening right now.

For students, they're trying to keep up with that. What is it that I need to study? What are these new career paths? What could make the most sense? What are industries I maybe wouldn't have considered before? And they're trying to figure that out. And then universities are trying to help them find those jobs and be successful after they graduate. And so, we're in a really complicated moment. I think it's always hard when you're thinking about that first job out of school, but I do think the current generation is facing some things I certainly didn't face when I was looking for my first job.

David Maffei: Totally.

Monne Williams: And I know they're thinking about quite a few things. So, Gen Zers are thinking about location, where do they want to work, how can they be close to family and other support sources, especially as cost of living is a concern? They want opportunities to grow and develop their skills. They care about the brands that they're working for. So, is this an employer who's going to invest in me, help me think about the next steps in my career, what I could do next? And they really want to do that in a place where it feels like they could start their careers, right? They want a job. They want to be able to turbocharge what that's going to look like for them and get off to a good start.

David Maffei: Yeah, no it makes a ton of sense. The things you talk about in terms of the things that are important to this generation, it is location, it is what it means for them to feel connected to a business. I know that you've said that one of the big things that Gen Z values is authenticity and relatability. As we think about Staffbase's world as the leading communications engine for internal comms in the world, what's one practical way the internal comms or recruiting teams can deliver on what it means to bring authenticity and relatability to this generation?

Monne Williams: Sure. I think one is doing it in the format that we know Gen Z likes, which is video. I think that performs really well, and we know that that is a place they're already looking. I think the other way to think about authenticity is when Gen Z is doing research about jobs and careers, they are looking at multiple sources. And so, if, as a company, you are only presenting one view of what your culture is, or one view of this is how we would answer this question, I think they're automatically a little distrustful.

And so, having multiple people from your company talking about that, really galvanizing other employees, interns, people who are close in tenure, as well as folks who are further into their careers, who can talk about what it's like to work there and answer some of those questions so that potential candidates have an opportunity to see what that culture is like from multiple perspectives. And I think that really translates to authenticity in the way they're thinking about that in their job search.

David Maffei: Yeah, I think it makes sense. And I think you've touched on how almost the brand and the culture inside of these employers starts to emerge. I think, obviously, I've been in this space a long time. An employer brand, I think, sometimes can fall into the bucket of nice to have. But I think that those who have been around this for a long time and have seen this transition know that it's actually not a nice-to-have; it's a must-have.

So, I guess, just talk to me about why do you believe it's essential when you're scaling a business, when you're communicating, when you're thinking about the approach that a business takes, why is it so important that these employers have a brand and a culture that's recognizable and adaptable to this generation?

Monne Williams: The thing that I have to say first is that this idea that it's a nice-to-have really drives me crazy. So, it's sort of like your health. You have it. The choice is you decide to manage it or not, but you don't decide to have health. It exists. So you have an employer brand. And the choices that people really should be making in these positions and employers is how are you managing it? What is the most important thing for you to get across to your current employees, of course, but to potential candidates, on what is it like to work there? What is it that you bring to the table, to the types of talent that are really important to you, that you can communicate in a way that helps you set yourself apart, and remain competitive when some of the jobs that you're looking for, really, those students have lots of choices.

And so, how are you standing out as an employer of choice in that market? Taking the opportunity to see this as an asset and a thing that you do need to actively manage and making choices about how to do that and how to communicate it in a way that really resonates with the audience that you're trying to find, I think, is the most important piece. So, one thing, I don't think it's a nice-to-have. I think you should be actively thinking about this all the time because your potential candidates certainly are.

David Maffei: Yeah, for sure. It's funny. I did an interview just yesterday with PR News. And it was about crisis communications. It was about preparedness. And when you think about the culture and the brand and the voice that these employers have, whether it's in time of crisis and organizations have to take a stance, or it's in terms of recruiting, in terms of wanting to attract new talent, or maybe even more importantly, being able to keep talent in-house that you found, I think people underestimate, I like your health connection there, they underestimate, you've got a brand, whether you like it or not. So you better figure out how to elevate that brand to be able to tell the story that you're trying to tell in the market and to get the people you're trying to attract into the people you're trying to retain. I think that's really insightful for the audience. You know, and when you think about these employers, we see from your work at McKinsey, working with these massive Fortune 500s, you also see smaller organizations. I think that the importance of employer brand and culture across the spectrum is critical, whether you're that massive Fortune 500 or smaller company.

So, I guess my question is for leaders who are running small but maybe mighty teams, how do you create a culture in that environment where young talent feels ownership, where they can see growth opportunities, where they can share their best work, and they feel like they can make a difference in an organization, perhaps maybe because it's smaller and they're not just a cog in the machine of this massive global enterprise?

Monne Williams: We've seen in the last year, there's been increased interest in working for smaller companies from Gen Z, from our research as well. So I think it is a great moment for small teams and small companies to be thinking about this. I actually think, maybe I'm biased, I started at a smaller place, smaller company, you learn a lot more sometimes in some of those experiences because you're closer to the work. And I think what a lot of those small teams, especially, can do really well if they're thoughtful, is say, "This is what we're trying to do, this is how it supports the organization or the business, and this is how our work ladders up to that."

And I think really taking the opportunity to help those candidates, interns, new employees think about how their work does the thing that we're trying to do and how it adds value. So, it's really easy to say, "Do this spreadsheet." It's a little more complicated to say, "This is how this analysis that you're doing fits into this broader decision." But helping those early talent folks think about that helps them make different decisions.

They develop the judgment that they need. They get exposed to more of the thinking about the business than just what they might see in their day-to-day. And I think they can bring better ideas and innovations to the team and feel much more ownership about what they're doing, versus feeling like just a small cog in a wheel, and people don't really understand what their work does.

David Maffei: Yes, I couldn't agree with you more. You know, similarly to you, I've worked for large companies. I've worked for really small, scrappy startups. I even founded a small company startup myself. Your point about being closer to the work and almost having it so that the impact that you're having on that company is magnified because there's not a lot of people that are impacting that company, that's the old cream rises to the crop thing.

You have people who want to act like owners. They want to act like they have an opportunity to make a difference. And if they fit inside of the employer's brand and their culture and their vision, and they can actually grab the ball and say, ''Hey, I think I can run further with this ball now with these ideas and with these thoughts,'' and they're encouraged to do that, I think that's where you can see tremendous growth. Yes, we're on the same page there.

Monne Williams: One sports connection for you. When I was starting at the Red Sox, Larry Lucchino was the CEO at the time. And one of the very early lessons I remember is on the days where you're walking through the ballpark, fans are there, if you see a piece of trash, it doesn't matter what your job is there, but your job is to pick it up. And so, how do you think about the ballpark as a place where you're trying to create a good experience for fans? And it doesn't matter what the thing is to be done, but I felt the obligation and the duty, but also empowered to do the things that were necessary to create those types of experiences, even though they weren't in my "job description."

David Maffei: It's such an impactful story because when you . . . Maybe not everyone on the phone knows, but Larry Lucchino, who we lost a few years ago, was really one of the architects of breaking the curse with the Red Sox and the Yankees from 100 years of not winning anything. When you think about how high profile this gentleman was and the fact that that's the message he's delivering, that it's so important that we find the best talent, sign the best free agents, do the best contracts, beat the Yankees and everyone else, but he's focused about the experience that a fan has in terms of looking at a piece of trash on the ground.

I think it speaks volumes, tying back to employer brand and culture. It's like, who are we? What do we care about? Yes, winning is important because we're a professional sports franchise, but why are we here? We're here for the fans. And I think sometimes that's stated, but it's not always followed through, so that's an awesome story to hear. Very cool. All right. I'm going to hit you now with this thing that probably any interview you're doing now is probably asking about, which is artificial intelligence, the future of work. I'd love to switch things up and get into a topic that I know you're passionate about.

But so, I guess there's nothing more emergent right now than artificial intelligence. It's transforming hiring. It's transforming workplace communication. It's transforming productivity. How do you see AI reshaping these entry-level careers, both better and for worse? What skills should candidates be building, and what expectations should managers be setting in this new environment where people have now gone from using AI as a little bit scary, but kind of cool, to if you're not using artificial intelligence both at work and in your personal life, you're actually behind the eight ball? I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Monne Williams: Sure. Every day, there is a new headline, and they often contradict themselves on what AI is currently doing to the economy, and very specifically, the job market for early talent. And unfortunately, I don't have a crystal ball. I can't totally tell you what's going to happen, though. I wish I did. I would be in a very different, probably career path at that point. But I do think it is important for us to remember there are lots of things happening at one time. There's a broader economic conversation that's happening, interest rates, tariffs, thinking about where we're investing in the US in different industries.

And all of that impacts job market as much as the AI could impact it right now. And so as people are trying to make these choices and decisions, all those things are happening at one time. What I do think we can say is that AI certainly is redefining early talent jobs. And it is making us all think about what that work needs to look like and what those jobs are going to be today, six months from now, and a year from now. And I think that's an important distinction. And students are trying to keep up with this as well. As they think about it from their perspective, they know that using those tools can, one, help them be more productive, it can help them learn more.

They're using it a lot for brainstorming, self-education, learning something new, being able to start something, and then build on it and make it better. So they are pretty comfortable using these tools already in their day-to-day work at school, and also the stuff that they're trying to do to further develop themselves and make themselves more prepared for the job market, even outside of their university experience. So, I think there are these natural users of some of these things in the way that many of the folks who are currently in roles maybe feel less comfortable doing.

Some companies were also slow to implement tools that employees could have access to, and so people are behind closed doors using these tools, but not telling their employers at the same time. But we have Gen Z who's much more comfortable doing this, especially coming out of college. And so, I think a lot of employers are seeing that in the candidates that they are looking for. I do think there is this broader disconnect, though, which is that none of us have figured this out, and so we're all trying to do it at the same time. So on the employer side, they're like, "Wow, this job market is really competitive. We are getting so many applications for the same number of jobs that maybe we would've posted before."

So, just the application volume is so high, and so they're trying to sift through these, they're trying to look at all the best people that they need, what's the talent that they have available, and how to supplement that with these new applicants. On the applicant side, they're saying, "Well, now I know employers are using these tools and AI is screening my resume. Of course, I would also use a tool to help do this." And I don't think that a student should be penalized for that. I think it's actually very rational, smart thinking in this current environment and situation.

And, so, we're at this weird place where no one's happy. All the students I talk to feel frustrated, and a lot of employers also feel frustrated, but we also recognize that yeah, we're still figuring it out. We're in the middle of this big transformation of how people are thinking about these processes. And so, how do you use those tools in a way that is most helpful for you, I think is what all employer, TA teams are thinking about now. But it's also what candidates are thinking about right now. And I think for employers it's really important to set the expectation early on, like how you expect those candidates to use or not use AI in the recruiting process. And so, if you have a job where you're telling the student they're going to use AI at work, but then you're also kind of telling them not to use it during the process, that feels inconsistent.

And so, how do you think through all of those choices that you're making, both in the recruiting process and then what the person's going to ultimately do in that job, so that it feels consistent and that students aren't guessing at it? They know exactly what you expect, and then they can prepare for that and actually follow the rules that you want them to follow.

David Maffei: Yeah, you bring up such a fascinating point, and I think we're in this particular topic right around job searching and the connectivity between candidates and employers. There is, and I'm going to grossly oversimplify this, and it's not the case for everyone, but you have a situation where the applicants are using artificial intelligence to tell their story, to build their resume, to create their cover letters, and then also to help them find the targets that they want to go after. So, AI is really a driving force for those who have adopted it and really viewed it.

And then, to your point on the flip side, these employers are using AI tools to sift through all the resumes and to try and match those candidates with the right jobs and who's going to exist and who's not. And it's funny. It's almost like the days of one of the first jobs I had out of school. I had to literally take a personality test because they wanted to know that my personality and thinking style would match with the culture and the values, and the growth trajectory of the business. And now you have all of this machine learning that's happening on both sides of the aisle. And it's almost like the machines are talking to each other and are now a superficial point that exists between the actual candidate and the actual employer.

And so, ensuring how we can empower both sides of that aisle to be able to come together and to be able to understand that, yes, technology is assisting us, it's making us smarter, it's allowing us to go faster, it's trying to sift through the noise, but at the end of the day, it's still matchmaking between the right human candidate and the right employer that's filled with humans to be able to get the job done. So it really is fascinating when you look at this. That trend is, you know I can carry that to 10 other industries as well, not just in terms of thinking about early applicants to the job market and trying to figure out how to separate themselves from the pack.

Monne Williams: And we see that candidates do see that AI, as a skill, is much more sought after. We see that on, of course, engineering and computer science students, adding that to their resume. But in general, we see an uptick across all areas of study. And so people really are trying to identify those skills that they have and get noticed for that matchmaking, as you mentioned. The other pet peeve I often hear from recruiters and folks in the space is, "Yeah, people don't even send thank-you notes anymore."

And I think this is the one that, again, drives me a little crazy because it's, if I thought there was a bot on the other side, would I send a thank-you note? I don't know. Like that's a different calculation that people are making today. Just another example of how the expectations that we may have had 5 to 10 years ago about what the recruiting process looks like and what the norms are, are different today because the inputs are different. And how do we help readjust that and be explicit about that and tell students what to expect, and other candidates, for that matter, what to expect?

David Maffei: I also think it ties back to a lot of the stuff we were talking about earlier in terms of opportunity and even from an educational institution perspective. I mean, I see it in my own life. I have a 17-year-old daughter, a 15-year-old son. If I look at their school year last year, my daughter's school was enabling and encouraging the use of AI to accelerate the learning process and to accelerate the opportunities that she and her classmates were having in this world that's super competitive. On the flip side, my son's school was spending copious amounts of time discouraging the use of AI and trying to stomp it out and say it's not good, and use tools to catch students who were having AI help them write.

They're two very different thought processes, but if you actually put your eye on where the job market is, where this market's going, and how this technology's emerging, the way that my daughter's school is handling this is, in my opinion, superior because it's teaching them how to leverage the transformation as they move forward as opposed to fighting it, which you've seen, whether it was people adopting the cloud or being able to use their own devices at work. Everyone that's fought these different transformation elements eventually loses, so it's going to be those early adopters that figure it out that are going to be able to push forward, both as individual candidates as well as these employers.

Fascinating. All right. Let's do a segment around talking about lessons from your time at McKinsey. So, before Handshake, you spent 11 years at McKinsey, revising these Fortune 500s on transformation. What's one lesson about organizational change that still holds true, no matter the industry? And in addition to that, what would you say is one blind spot you've seen leaders have, when trying to connect with their workforce? And how can communications help to close that gap? And even, I'll throw AI in the mix too. How can AI come in and help and try and close that gap?

Monne Williams: I like that. On the first part of your question on what's the thing that really is consistent across industries, across job categories, in transformation, what's hard, especially when people are trying to change? I think it's that people generally want to do the right thing at work. That's true. We see that in survey data, I think, in my own lived experience.

David Maffei: Sure.

Monne Williams: And so, if you're a leader and you see that someone is not doing the thing that you want them to do, I think we often go to, "Oh, it's this person not doing the right thing." I think as a leader, it's your job to think about the incentives and the environment you've created that might make it actually hard for that person to do the right thing. So, if we're saying that we really want people to be more collaborative and to work in teams and to crush silos, all things I would hear all the time in my work with our different clients, and you have not changed your incentive structure, so, maybe I'm on the marketing team and you're on the comms team, and our goals are actually really different and sometimes maybe even conflicting, but now you're asking me to work with you, that's actually going against my own self-interest.

Like that takes a pretty big person to say, "I'm not going to worry about this performance review. I'm just going to do this thing because I think it's the right thing for the business." And so, really trying to think about the barriers and reinforcements you have in place that are keeping people from doing the thing that you're asking them to do, and going into that with curiosity, versus thinking people are just being resistant or stubborn. And yeah, that happens sometimes. But often, we're asking people to act against their own self-interest. And I think that's just a very hard, not very human thing to ask people to do.

So, that's pretty consistent. The role modeling piece shows up there, too. If you're saying that you want to be a bottom-up organization where ideas come from the people closest to the work and on the front line, but whenever you're in a meeting, the first person that talks is the most senior person, that's probably not the culture you're trying to create. So, how do you look at all of those things to say, "How do we behave differently every day? What incentive and reward structures do we have? And how do we create an environment that allows us to do more of those things in a way that doesn't feel like we're asking people to go against their own interest?"

And the blind spot, I think, is similar in that you assume as a leader that everyone knows as much as you know, and that they've had the same amount of time to deal with it. So, if there's a big change that's happening, you probably heard the idea. You had a chance to talk about it. You had a chance to be mad about it or upset, or whatever your initial reaction might be, and you've worked through that. And so, then you're coming to your team and you're probably like, "Rah-rah, this thing has to happen," but they're hearing it for the first time.

And instead of thinking about your own cycle of change and what you had to do, you instead are trying to insert them in at Step 3 out of 5 instead of Step 1, and you wonder why people are frustrated or resistant and having a hard time. So, how do you bring them up to speed, both on the literal information, but then too, give them time to do some of the same things that you had to do to get really confident and comfortable and maybe even excited about that decision? And I think that's where AI can be really helpful in a lot of those contexts. Like how do you tailor communications in a way that helps people understand from the perspective that they need to understand?

Sometimes the big top-down story, super helpful, but sometimes people just want to know, "How does this change my job? What do I need to do differently tomorrow, or how does this mean I need to work differently with another team in the organization?" And I think that's where small teams who are trying to drive these internal communication efforts could use tools like AI to really try to get more personalized and specific about some of those things with less resources, which I think actually could be very helpful. I'm a little jealous that I'm not doing some of this work in this moment that I was doing 10 years ago, because I think some of these tools really could unlock some cool ideas and ways to think about that differently.

David Maffei: Yeah, no, super insightful. All right. I would be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about your time at the Red Sox. I know you told that great Larry Lucchino story earlier. I've been a season ticket holder since 1995, just to date myself.

Monne Williams: Wow.

David Maffei: But, so, first question, nothing to do with the topic. I want to know your coolest memory from your four years of working for the Sox.

Monne Williams: Coolest memory. It's a pretty cool place. It's hard. I think, maybe the one that I always initially think about is we got to create a panel to talk about some of Red Sox's history and the work that the team had been doing at the time to diversify the fan base and think about the role in the community. One of the people that we invited to this panel was Bill Russell.

David Maffei: Oh, cool.

Monne Williams: And my favorite memory is Bill Russell giving me a hard time for going to Duke, as my undergrad. I don't know. A fun memory to me, you know, poked fun at by somebody who has such a big impact on Boston and just such an important figure in history and thinking about sports in Boston.

David Maffei: That is very cool. I'll also ask, so from those four years with the Sox, and you think about the work that you're doing at Handshake today, what's one of the things that you took from that time that you use, maybe not every day, but you use all the time in terms of how it shapes the way that you think about the work you do today?

Monne Williams: Sure. The thing that I think was most interesting about the work I was doing there is that it changed every few months, which is cool. I love that, which is also how I ended up being a consultant and learned that that was probably the next cool thing for me to do. And so, I got to experiment a lot, learn a lot. And one of the early things I worked on when we were thinking about other sources of revenue and how do you take advantage of the ballpark as an asset, and how do you bring new customers in as a way to do that, even when ticket sales were sold out, which is a great problem to have.

David Maffei: Sure.

Monne Williams: And we often had to think about it from a different perspective, which I think was easier for me because I didn't grow up in a place where baseball was really big. I wasn't this super intense Boston sports fan as you were because I didn't have any connection to Boston before I moved there. And it was a chance to really think about, "Okay, all these people who love the Red Sox are very invested. They come here. They already were buying the merchandise. They want to buy the tickets, but there's a whole part of Boston that doesn't come." And these are not the people who are necessarily fighting to buy tickets or haven't been season ticket holders since 1995.

And so, what are the things that we could do to build loyalty and brand awareness with those people? And so, thinking from the perspective of, "We have this great brand, of course, you want to be involved." To "This brand doesn't mean the same thing to everyone." And so, what are the different entry points I could have to try to find people who maybe aren't currently super excited about the brand or Fenway Park, even though I think it's a very cool venue, and get them excited? And one of the ways we did that was we started to spend way more time involved in professional organizations, for example.

Being able to say, "Hey, you're going to have this meeting anyway, why not have it at Fenway?" And what would make this an interesting experience for you? And then, once people are there, of course, they have the meeting, they do the things that they would normally do, but then how do we expose them to parts of the ballpark and the brand that help them think about it differently? And so, really coming at the question from, what would I need to believe to get you to be a fan or to enjoy it, versus assuming you already are a fan and thinking about the messaging that way? I think that was a pretty big difference in how we do it.

And I think that applies heavily to a lot of the work I do today, especially for companies that are in the B2B world, where a lot of these students haven't come in contact with the work that they do or the products that they make. And so, how do they help people understand what that is versus just knowing, like a brand that we have now? For the Red Sox, people know it, and they want to be involved. Very different case if you make industrial furniture that people have never heard of and you're trying to convince people that, "Hey, this is a cool company to work for."

David Maffei: It's fascinating. I date myself again here, but about a decade ago, I was involved in a news segment piece that was being put on by Bloomberg. I actually was interviewed by Kathy Ireland as a part of this and then did a segment at Fenway, where I got to spend time with Brian Shield, who was the then CTO of the Sox. And I remember sitting up in the EMC deck, and we're just on camera, we're chatting. And he started to go into all the stuff that you were just talking about. He's like, "You know, it's not just about the diehard Red Sox fans, Dave, like yourself. It's actually about bringing in a diverse, connective audience who sees beyond than just the game that's happening on the field."

And he talked about the introduction of Wally and Tessie, the mascots, and really applying to smaller kids, and hats off to heroes, where we're thanking service men and women who have done some great things. He just kept going on and on about all these things that are beyond the game, but a part of the experience about transforming the culture of not just who the Sox are, but what that experience means to the city. And I had never really thought about it through that lens.

So connecting back to everything you're saying, it makes a lot of sense. And again, comes back to employer branding and authenticity, and who do we want to be. And guess what? We can't win the World Series every single year, as the Red Sox for 86 years proved, but we can still do something that's meaningful and that affects this community and that puts people in a position to move forward. So, very cool. I'm a little bit in awe that you got to work there for four years.

Monne Williams: You mentioned the World Series. I don't often bring this out, but I did for this. You can't see it super well.

David Maffei: Oh, I love it. That is awesome.

Monne Williams: 2007. That was my other cool Red Sox moment, probably, being able to get the ring and be a part of that parade in 2007.

David Maffei: I am so happy you brought that up. That is awesome. That is so cool. All right, Monne, we're going to end rapid fire, five questions, maybe six, and then we'll close up. It's okay. In one sentence answers, one leadership trait that you think will define the next decade.

Monne Williams: I think being able to tailor your message to inspire different types of people who are motivated by different types of things will be super important in the future.

David Maffei: Love it. Most underrated skill for Gen Z entering the workforce.

Monne Williams: I think they're very good at building followership. And I don't think that that's a skill that many of us got to do early in the same way, but I think most of their lives being online, they've had a chance to think about that in a very different way. I think it goes back to that inspiration point. I think they'll be able to do that differently than we have.

David Maffei: Okay, I like that. I'm buying that, okay. Book, podcast, recommend something that you've read or listened to that's awesome that most of our audience probably never has.

Monne Williams: Probably never has is hard. The book I've read several times is "Sapiens." And I like it because just thinking, again, about why humans do what they do, why we're wired the way we're wired, and how does my work need to reflect that, and when I'm talking to people, how can I bring some of that to bear in those conversations?

David Maffei: Cool. Cool. If you were not working in the world you're in now, this people and talent world, if you could just use the crystal ball that you said you don't have and see into the future to do something else, what would you do? What would you be doing?

Monne Williams: I think there are two paths. Path one is I'm a carpenter, and I make furniture. And maybe I sell it, maybe I don't, but I just spend all of my time woodworking and being in a workshop, which sounds cool. Second path is that I love TV. I spend a lot of time watching TV. Somebody pays me to tell them what TV is good or not and talk about it more. And the range of things I watch is pretty vast, so that also sounds fun.

David Maffei: Oh, that's great. I love that. I love the woodworking, too. That's so cool. We talked a lot about Duke and basketball being a driver for you there, the Red Sox, baseball. Baseball or basketball, which one are you picking? You have to pick just one.

Monne Williams: Oh, basketball. I played and I have always been a women's basketball fan, but I am deep into this WNBA season and — go, Atlanta. I've been watching the Dream and excited to actually go to the game tonight.

David Maffei: Oh, that's very cool. That's very cool. I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about there's a lot more connections here. You've got Jayson Tatum, Duke, Celtics, Boston. There's a lot of good stuff going on there.

Monne Williams: Definitely.

David Maffei: Look, this has been awesome. I appreciate all of your thoughts, your perspectives, your authenticity, and transparency. I'm so appreciative that you took the time to hang out with me and the audience. Yes, just thanks so much for taking the time.

Monne Williams: Thank you. It was great to meet you, David.

David Maffei: Awesome. Sounds good. Everyone, again, I'm David Maffei. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Aspire to Inspire. Be sure to join us again. Thanks again, Monne. We'll talk to you soon.